Punishment Psychology & Technique [Archive]

Blade

05-14-2008, 12:48 AM

I've read a lot about different techniques for administering punishment in a loving relationship and was wondering if these are effective in real working relationships.

Here are a couple of the things I have heard. Do you think they are valuable tools? I'm curious how what people think about these things.

Maintenance spankings
Spankings given on a regular basis (like once a week). These are given despite behavior or performance and work to enforce the submissives role and keep them feeling loved. During this time the submissive confesses the weeks missteps and is given tips by the dom. The severity of the spanking depends on the level of correction needed but is given even in periods of good behavior.

Spank until the sub cries
Some argue for punishments you should spank the sub partner until they cry. This signifies giving up all control to the dom as the sub is giving up their emotions in this act. I've read of some people who do this on a weekly basis as a maintenance spanking.

tempered_sugar

05-14-2008, 07:26 AM

The severity of the spanking depends on the level of correction needed but is given even in periods of good behavior.

I have a slight problem with this personally. If a sub has been good why give them the same response as when they have been bad? Ok the "severity" changes but I feel this gives mixed messages: "You've been good but you're getting the same treatment as when you have been naughty. :)

I am slightly biased as spanking is never used as a punishment for me because I enjoy it too much. I usually get a punishment totally separated from pain or any kind of "play" as I enjoy pain so much. My one last night was to stand in the corner for 30 mins to think about what I'd done. However I do like the idea of getting a weekly spanking but that’s just because I'd happily get one everyday if I could :)

I really like the idea of the sub being given the time each week to talk over any little things they have done wrong, but personally feel that the punishment should be given after it has been talked over not during it. This way things are separated more and bad things can be punished and good rewarded more clearly. Maybe some "down time" a week is a good idea, like setting a certain amount of time for the sub to reflect on the week then reporting back with anything that was bad behaviour or anything they feel they have done well in etc.

I see what you're saying about the whole crying thing and know that this can be an amazing release for the sub as well as them putting their emotions in the Dominants hands. However if spanking is used as a punishment I'm guessing the sub doesn't enjoy it much so maybe spanking to the point of tears is a bit much? I'm not 100% sure on this one and think it defiantly depends on the individual. I know some subs cry when they get into subspace and the pain or feelings are over whelming, although still within their pleasure zone. I just think if someone isn't a fan of spanking and is pushed with it to the point of crying it could do more damage than good when it comes to punishment.

I'd much rather my Master gave me the time to talk to him calmly instead of during a spanking when I could be likely to blurt anything out because I'm so cought up in it, just sounds like a kind of forced confession to me, if that makes sense. Although I do know there is a difference between a nice caressing spank and a full on thudding one I keep going back to it sending a mixed signal.

I think all of this does depend on the individual though but defiantly feel good and bad behaviour should be kept separate so they can be rewarded and punished in the most effective way.

Dementyia

05-15-2008, 06:10 PM

Well said Tempered_Sugar, I couldn't agree more.

I too, believe that a punishment should be separate from a reward, even if both are spankings, being of differing types or intensities.

aika

05-20-2008, 11:20 AM

A maintenance spanking reminds the sub who's boss, in a way. A BDSM relationship would get boring if the sub was so well behaved they never deserved a punishment.

tempered_sugar

05-21-2008, 12:46 AM

Yes I agree that if the sub was perfectly hehaved it would take away the challenge etc. But this is talking about spanking if they have done something wrong or not, as I said in my post it sends mixed signals in my opinion. However a loveing spank, not connected with punishment once a week I think would be really good to keep the Dom/sub connection strong as a hand spanking from someone is a very intimate thing :)

aika

05-21-2008, 06:00 AM

I think I agree that maintenance spankings should be much softer.

TensionRoom101

05-22-2008, 03:38 AM

If I feel the need to punish a submissive through violence I consider myself a failure as a Dom, so I certainly don't engage in maintenance beatings.

Mike

sum1

05-22-2008, 04:06 AM

Indeed. For me a punishment should be about making the sub see what they've done wrong, how they've displeased me and usually giving them an opportunity to think of why they shouldn't do t again.

I usually hate giving punishments finding them very difficult. The only time that i don't mind giving punishments is when they are needed because the sub has done something that may hurt themselves.

With spankings, as aforementioned, my little one enjoys spanking far too much to ever be used as a punishment.

aika

05-22-2008, 09:45 AM

I think a spanking and a beating are two completely different things.

A spanking can be enjoyable and sexual, a beating tends to be a lot less enjoyable for the recipient.

Merlin

05-22-2008, 11:45 AM

we may have a different idea of beating ... but if i would have to beat a sub or slave then i would do something really wrong. Don't see why someone should even consider that...
(beating for me means using brutal force with the intention to hurt the other one...)

Edit: On the other Hand i like to spank others ... spanking has nothing to do with violence :)

pheinbaugh2

05-22-2008, 12:07 PM

i'm game for fun but i don't think pain would term me on.

Chloe

05-22-2008, 07:59 PM

I must admit that I don't care much for these types of "punishments". Very often punishments scenes involving spankings & such are usually more "play punishments" & more or less wanted by the sub. And I often find that doms who use spankings or painful punishments in general don't really seem to know what they want to achieve with it. Or either they just feel like having their way with the sub with no valid motive behind it.

Just like tempered_sugar, the use of spankings as a punishment for me would be totally irrelevent because I like them much. But even a punishment involving "bad pain" would be just as ineffective. I agree with sum1 that a punishment should allow a sub to think about what he/she has done wrong. The way I see it the best punishments are the ones where you can realize what was done wrong, find ways to avoid repeating the same mistake over again & make up for what was done wrong.

Hampers

05-22-2008, 11:49 PM

I personally find the threat of punishment works much better in controlling a sub than an actual punishment...

tempered_sugar

05-23-2008, 03:00 AM

Hummm it can do but if you are threatening them with pain then some how I don't like it. "If you are bad I'll spank you till you cry" (in the case of this thread). It sounds really aggressive and nasty and if a Dom threatened me with that I have to say I'd probably walk away.

I am not a four year old I can be told that I am in danger of crossing a line and that crossing it will result in the displeasure of the Dom. Just knowing the Dom isn't pleased is enough to stop me in my tracks. Although like a four year old I sometimes get "the look" which works just as well :)

TensionRoom101

05-23-2008, 04:41 AM

If a sub likes to be spanked then it is not a punishment, it's a treat.

If they don't like to be spanked, and they've done no wrong, then it's not a punishment, it's abuse.

Mike

sum1

05-23-2008, 05:21 AM

Although like a four year old I sometimes get "the look" which works just as well :)

Just be thankful that I've never had to use "the voice". If used at full power it bring you closer to tears than a spanking would.

We seem to have got caught up with spanking as a form of punishment and how that doesn't work. But the title of the tread is far broader.

As i said before, for me a punishment should be about allowing the sub to realise that you're displeased with them and give them a chance to think about what they did wrong.

The last punishment i had to give my little one involved her firstly writing an email of apology, which had to be a certain length minimum. I find these good as it means she has to take time out form other things sit down and think about what she's done and what she's saying. It also means that by emailing it to me, we both have a copy for future reference.

The second part of the punishment was to stand in the corner of her room for half an hour thinking about what she had done.

tempered_sugar

05-23-2008, 10:23 AM

Just be thankful that I've never had to use "the voice". If used at full power it bring you closer to tears than a spanking would.

:eek: So going to be a good girl then.

aika

05-23-2008, 11:34 AM

If a sub likes to be spanked then it is not a punishment, it's a treat.

And one I enjoy giving :cool:

Strawberry

05-23-2008, 11:51 PM

Merlin

05-24-2008, 12:21 AM

You people should stop being such pussies... For some violence works, for some it doesn't.
I love pain, and I love cruelty to some extent. That doesn't make my Dom a failure at all.. Everyone just have different dynamics, and different things that work for them.Of course i even share your opinion there is absolutely nothing wrong with pain and cruelty i like to use pain and i can be cruel some times, but you are saying yourself "to some extent". I think what got wrong here is the question where "spanking" stops and beating starts. And this can be really different from one person to another... For some this may be bruises for others broken legs or arms...
Also... I'm tired of people saying that if a sub/slaves does whatever she doesnt like, it's abuse. It's not abuse unless she feels abused..Yeah again right :) i think the important part here is how does the sub feel after it.
And I asume that most people have the brains to tell if there's something that truly goes beyond their limits...I am afraid you are wrong here ... although it would be good if it was the case. Some will not say anything because they think it is not right to criticize their master. Some will fear to make him mad. Some wont even feel that they crossed this line for a long time...
Being a slave isn't muffin and candyland for everyone. Some subs and slave like to do whatever their Dom/Master wants them to... EVEN if they don't like it. And some don't. It doesn't make either more right or wrong. it just makes them different.It doesn't even make them different ... You say that they like to do these things ... meaning they are not doing something they don't like. No problem with that :)

Again (at least i) am talking about things that let the slave feel bad after it is done, and not about things that are unpleasant at the moment they take place. And this is very individual.
I see the difference between a spanking and a beating in one point: control. Spanking means the master is in control of what he is doing, Beating means he just wants to inflict pain without controlling himself, and that is wrong!

tempered_sugar

05-24-2008, 01:04 AM

Strawberry

05-24-2008, 01:08 AM

Of course i even share your opinion there is absolutely nothing wrong with pain and cruelty i like to use pain and i can be cruel some times, but you are saying yourself "to some extent". I think what got wrong here is the question where "spanking" stops and beating starts. And this can be really different from one person to another... For some this may be bruises for others broken legs or arms...
Yeah again right :) i think the important part here is how does the sub feel after it.
I am afraid you are wrong here ... although it would be good if it was the case. Some will not say anything because they think it is not right to criticize their master. Some will fear to make him mad. Some wont even feel that they crossed this line for a long time...
It doesn't even make them different ... You say that they like to do these things ... meaning they are not doing something they don't like. No problem with that :)

Again (at least i) am talking about things that let the slave feel bad after it is done, and not about things that are unpleasant at the moment they take place. And this is very individual.
I see the difference between a spanking and a beating in one point: control. Spanking means the master is in control of what he is doing, Beating means he just wants to inflict pain without controlling himself, and that is wrong!

I said "Most people" :P Now I don't know everyone, but I've met many people who actually know how to say no.

Anyway.. i'd like to say that sometimes I have some *etreme* Fantasies, that I wouldn't be afraid to try out in RL... Most of you would call it Abuse.. I'd call it thrill.

So what I'm saying.. Yes.. if the sessions have consequenses for the sub that are bad and maybe even traumatic.. It IS abuse... You do think in life you improve your happiness and desires.. I don't get why some people are together with guys that really hurt them in a way that isn't good. But you can't put any limits on where the line goes... Some even experiment with extreme Asphyxiation.. SOme would call it abuse.. Some would call it stupid.. But if it's right for the couple, you have no right to judge or feel better than them.

I have desires that most people would cringe at and call abuse.. But for me it wouldn't be abuse.. not at all.. And for me, all the softy/caring sub-is-in-control just isn't for me. It's nice that we have Doms that constantly worry about the sub's comfy state... but for me it would be annoying and a sign of weakness. I like it rough simply put... Very rough... Trust me.. if you think that a spanking till the sub cries is bad.. Don't even THINK about seeing what goes on in my had.

All this isn't directly aimed at you, Merlin :) Just putting my thoughts out there so people KNOW that there are different people than them.

Strawberry

05-24-2008, 01:10 AM

erm....this thread was originally asking for peoples opinions on maintenance spanking so people were giving it. I think calling people pussies because of there opinions is also not accepting that people are different.

Um.. It's not an opinion if people make them sound as if it is fact... Which they did.. There is a difference between saying:

"Spanking subs too much is abuse"

and:

"It would be abuse if someone spanked me too much"

Because the only truth for people is their own truth.. I feel really insulted when people make their way seem like the right way...

My kink is not your kink, but it's ok.

tempered_sugar

05-24-2008, 01:47 AM

Well their way is the right way for them, but I agree people need to make it more about their opinion than making out its fact which is something I try not to do. Don't be insulted by it if I let everything people say get to me I'd just cry all the time :) People will never agree with each other especially over things to do with BDSM, variety is the spice of life :D

I think people have just forgotten that the original post was asking opinion on a certain way of useing spanking in a relationship, some would see it as abuse some won't. Which is what I said in my original post, everyone is different.

sum1

05-24-2008, 03:56 AM

I love pain, and I love cruelty to some extent. That doesn't make my Dom a failure

I think you've got the wrong end of the stick here. What this was originally about was spanking and pain being used as punishment, and what was being said that there were far better ways to punish a sub than using spanking.

As you say yourself, you love pain, therefore anything pain related would make a terrible punishment for you, it would be far far far too much of a treat.

Going on about abuse is rather off topic.

From the first post;

I've read a lot about different techniques for administering punishment in a loving relationship and was wondering if these are effective in real working relationships.

I think people have just forgotten that the original post was asking opinion on a certain way of useing spanking in a relationship

So actually for me little one, the thread is even broader than that. For me, it uses spanking as an example of punishments and is looking for ideas about how punishments can be administered in a broader context

tempered_sugar

05-24-2008, 04:15 AM

As I said Mr P it was asking about useing spanking in a certain way, as punishment :)

aika

05-24-2008, 08:21 AM

I think spanking can be used as a punishment without being abuse.

For simplicity, say the amount of spanks that your sub partner would enjoy was X spanks.

If you give them, say, X + 50 spanks you can hardly call it abuse, but the slave will learn that she doesn't want that to happen again and will therefore have been successfully punished, especially if she can't sit down the next day, naming no names ;)

tempered_sugar

05-24-2008, 08:35 AM

If they enjoy X spanks then I'm guessing they enjoy spanking. So why would +50 change that. Like I have said before you are just giving them something they enjoy but more of it. You would have to go very high for it to go out of my pleasure zone and if Mr P deliberatly went out of his way to hurt me I wouldn't be at all impressed and I'd be extremly upset he had turned something I enjoy into something I would potentially fear.

Chloe

05-24-2008, 08:42 AM

For simplicity, say the amount of spanks that your sub partner would enjoy was X spanks.

If you give them, say, X + 50 spanks you can hardly call it abuse, but the slave will learn that she doesn't want that to happen again and will therefore have been successfully punished

My ass is bright purple right now from a really intense spanking from 4 days ago. I really don't think 50 more would become a punishment then. I think 50 less as a punishment would maybe more effective for me :D

Strawberry

05-24-2008, 03:06 PM

[too many words to quote]

um.. Well I wasn't aiming this specifically at you.... So don't get so mean :(

Anyway.. I'm just expressing my feelings based on something some people have said here... Also, so what if it's offtopic? Offtopicness is the beauty of conversations :D

tempered_sugar

05-24-2008, 03:11 PM

Chloe- Girl after my own heart :D

stephpoet

05-25-2008, 11:41 AM

I love being spanked. For me, punishment would be my Master ignoring me, which he does a lot when displeased with my behavior.

lestat221

05-25-2008, 04:45 PM

Just like tempered_sugar, the use of spankings as a punishment for me would be totally irrelevent because I like them much. But even a punishment involving "bad pain" would be just as ineffective. I agree with sum1 that a punishment should allow a sub to think about what he/she has done wrong. The way I see it the best punishments are the ones where you can realize what was done wrong, find ways to avoid repeating the same mistake over again & make up for what was done wrong.

So what type of punishment do YOU recommend?

Chloe

05-25-2008, 07:50 PM

One example I had in mind when I wrote this was one "punishment" (it was rather a "consequence" in that particular context) that I received a while ago with my then-Master. I had accepted a task but completely botched it on purpose when came time to do it because it made me feel a bit too uncomfortable. I had then to re-do it once a day until I got it right. May sound very simple but trust me I wasn't pleased at 1st about having to do it over & over (it took me 4 days I believe). But once it was finally done I felt much better as I had made up for my mistake. The thing is that I personally am the type of sub who will feel very bad whenI do something wrong so much so that even these bad feelings are a mental self-punishment for me. So having a chance to make up makes it less dramatic.

So in the context of this thread a spanking would not work as I like it a lot. And anything involving "bad pain" would not help me making up at all. It could perhaps work short term only but would not allow me to make up & find ways to improve myself.

lestat221

05-25-2008, 07:58 PM

So perhaps for you just a complete denial of ANY pain would be the real punishment

AlienMindsInc

05-25-2008, 09:45 PM

I have to agree with TensionRoom on this one.

Physical violence should never be used as punishment. I know the following might be a bit hard to understand, but bear with me.

As a dom, I believe in punishments that fit the crime. If you are spanking someone for not letting the dog out, what have they learned? Probably nothing, because they're sitting on your knee being spanked either thinking about how much it hurts, how aroused they're getting, or what they could be doing if they weren't being spanked. Instead, perhaps something like a rule that requires them to beg to use the toilet and then denial of the toilet (while you're in a BDSM/messy safe environment) for an entire day, forcing them to use their pants (or diaper?) would be more productive. It does keep them thinking about why they are being punished.

This isn't the best example, but often you can refer to this as negative reinforcement. Negative reinforcement is kind of tricky and can contain many different aspects, but the one I'm talking about is mainly a decrease in certain behavior due to the removal of certain stimuli, or introduction to slightly unpleasant stimuli. In this case, both were administered, slightly unpleasant: using your pants, removal: allowed use of bathroom.

A slave/sub should never feel compelled to complete your requests based on fear of beatings. It only breeds mistrust, which is the most harmful thing that can enter a relationship.

In my personal experience, the threat of a punishment is often enough to keep one in line. However, should a punishment be needed, it should be something menial that reinforces the good behavior and makes the sub think. Sometimes, I find, for an unruly sub, the best punishment is just hearing the disappointment in your voice, followed by no punishment at all.

Ciao.
-M

tempered_sugar

05-26-2008, 01:56 AM

Instead, perhaps something like a rule that requires them to beg to use the toilet and then denial of the toilet (while you're in a BDSM/messy safe environment) for an entire day, forcing them to use their pants (or diaper?) would be more productive. It does keep them thinking about why they are being punished.

Hummm for a start toilet play is one of my limits so if it was used as a punishment it would go way too far. I think also people who aren't into it in general have it as one of their limits, if this is the case useing it as punishment in my opinion is just outright wrong. If someone is into toilet play then wouldn't they kind of enjoy this? Not many people have scat in their "soft limits" list its either yes or no in my experiance.

I just feel this is a pretty odd punishment as it humiliates, degrades and I would think make the sub very upset if this isn't something they are into. However the idea of having to ask to use the toilet and maybe being made to wait a little bit I think is a good idea. Its just the useing their pants part that I personally don't think is. I think this is personal but not sure many subs would take this punishment well and think it would to more harm than good in a lot of cases. Oh and who wants a stinky sub walking round the house? I'd say the Dom was getting a punishment there as well.

the best punishment is just hearing the disappointment in your voice, followed by no punishment at all.

Totally agree with this and this knowing the Dom is disapointed in my behavior is the worst punishment by far. No diaper needed just let me here the tone in his voice change and I'll get the message just fine. :)

AlienMindsInc

05-26-2008, 06:42 AM

I'm sorry, in my theoretical world everyone is okay with everything for the sake of argument, but you're absolutely right. The dom should NEVER cross the limits of the sub, unless asked to try to expand limits, and then it should be done gradually. That's rule one of Safe, Sane, Consensual.

-M

tempered_sugar

05-26-2008, 09:43 AM

No need to apologise :D Your post just got me to thinking about your example as a punishment is all and was just talking about how that would work with me, nothing personal. As I said you made good points just one that I didn't agree with :)

Strawberry

05-26-2008, 12:07 PM

The only good punishment for me would include non-painful and non-humiliating things... Such as chores.. I truly, honestly hate chores...

Or sometimes he threatens me with using this... numbing stuff that he has(same as dentists)... i SERIOUSLY hate that feeling.. I'd rather die 300 times before experiencing that again >_< so yea..

TensionRoom101

05-27-2008, 12:17 PM

My issue wasn't that spankings are ALWAYS bad. And most of my subs love it (there are at least 2 who fear my spankings a darned sight more than my floggers, and I have lots of floggers).

My point was really in relation to the idea of MAINTENANCE, as was first postulated. I don't really buy into the 'maintenance' spankings (or pissings, or nippings, or whatever floats your boat). Perhaps it's because as a parent and teacher I've seen so many children who get shouted at, demeaned, and yes, hit, by parents when they've done no wrong.

Spare the rod and spoil the child, as the catholics used to preach, is not a credo I aspire to either in this lifestyle or out of it.

And you're right, that is just my opinion and no more valid than anyone else's.

Forced2Bhere

09-21-2008, 06:03 AM

For me, spanking can be a pleasure or a punishment. It all depends on my mood and the circumstances.

When anticipating sexual contact, spanking can be a pleasure, but...

Spanking is a big punishment when administered in unexpected places or at unexpected times. It's absolutely humiliating being depantsed and spanked when Master has guests visiting. I'm always on my best behavior in those circumstances. Of course, Masters have a watchful eye, too, and keenly seek out the slightest infraction for which to punish, when guests are visiting.

Such is the life of a submissive and a slave...