Humiliation vs. Degradation

[Chloe]

First I just want to say that this thread is not about finding which definitions are true or best. I, for one, don’t believe in “one-size fits all” definitions. As we know everyone’s different and that’s what makes D/s so interesting. So I’m very curious to see what the responses will be as I enjoy seeing things from different angles :)

I see quite often many people referring to humiliation and degradation. For some, those two words are synonymous; for some others they are totally different from one another.

Some people say they enjoy both while some others say humiliation is fine but degradation is not…

So that leads me to wonder and ask:

Do you see a clear difference between both or is it for you basically pretty much the same? If you do see it as different then what makes them different?

And if you see both as different: Do you enjoy both, only one of them or none at all?

[Anjelen]

I see humilliation and degradation as two sepparate things - Humilliation is in my opinion more a state of mind for the one beeing humilliated, while degradation is a tool through wich more humilliation can be achieved.

My two cent's worth.

[His_Einna]

Personally, my Sir and I see the two differantly. Humiliation is anything that makes me embarrassed...not hard to do! One such thing is begging; he will almost always grant me a request as long as I'm willing to beg for it to prove how much I want it. Them's the rules. Humiliating for me, but I don't mind it (and sometimes enjoy it :-D). Being a naughty girl put over the knee for spanking, having my picture taken, being called a slut because of how much I enjoy something...all harmlessly humiliating things we both enjoy.

Degrading is something done with the intention to put me down...it's actually a hard limit (of his, not of mine). It's something he strives not to do...for instance, calling me a slut in front of my parents would degrade me in their eyes (they're real open about this stuff, but they don't 'get' D/s) or putting me down in front of my son. They're things that he just wouldn't do.

[EyesWideOpen]

You hit the nail on the head for me there His_Einna. I posted my take on the topic in Chloe's blog (http://www.kinktalk.com/talk/blog.php?b=54) but I'll take another shot at it here.

Degradation is humiliation with an intent other than to make the submissive feel submissive. It is being mean, in poor taste, or ignoring their limits. Degradation is the result of poor communication or abuse.

Humiliation itself can be a very good thing. It puts the submissive in their place (where they want to be) and proves for all the dynamics of the relationship.

[John Masters]

Even though humiliation and degradation as terms are interchangeable I do see a difference - degredation by its very nature will be humiliating but humiliation does not necessarily involve degradation.

I'll try and explain what I mean - telling a man he has a small penis for instance could be humiliating in that it could injure his dignity or reduce his self respect but it wouldn't be degrading - making him a public cuckold would be degrading because in the eyes of the world and himself it would make him something less than he was.

[Dark_Baron]

From my point of view, degradation is a way to achieve the feeling of humiliation and also much more intensive. Humiliation might be seen as the feeling but also a method to make someone feel embarassed and it is usually more mild. If you preffer to see it from a limits point of view, humiliation ay well enough be within someone's soft limits whilst degradation is usually trying to push them further. Therefore degradation could imply a different situation from slave to slave but more or less similar feelings.

[slavejohn]

i love to be humilliated and when i am i usually get hard. ON the rare ocasions i am degrated usually on accident i love it

[Leopard]

I read a very interesting definition of this the other day. You can read it here (http://www.denversub.com/humiliation.html).

Obviously everyone has different definitions. This site explained them as embarrassment being something that you do to yourself (for example, wetting yourself.) Humiliation is something that is done to you (e.g. being tied down and kept there until you wet yourself; you were forced into it.) Those are both physical examples. Verbal examples would be calling yourself a slut vs. being called one.

Now with degradation it gets really murky. I agree with the definition that degradation is a direct attack upon the submissive's self esteem. The problem with the line between embarrassment/humiliation and degradation here is essentially personal taste. One girl will feel deeply shamed at being called a dirty slut. Another's eyes will light up. It entirely depends on what you and especially the submissive are comfortable with and how various words and actions work with or for them. For some, degradation is a complete no-no. For others, they may secretly revel in it.

Basically I think everyone's common difference between the two terms is that degradation is bad and evil, and that humiliation is ... uh ... not as bad and usually for a purpose. Well, often for a purpose. But then so too degradation could be used for one. Oh dear.

:D Embarrassment = embarrassing yourself
:) Humiliation = someone embarrassing you
:mad: Degradation = deliberately grinding someone into the ground

There, that's better. Remember too, though, that this definition still does not claim that one is right or wrong. All may be wrong to one submissive. All may be right to another. Basically just be really careful with degradation.

[The Riddler]

The way i see humiliation, is embarrassment. So if you're walking someone on a leash, and having them eat out of a dish on the floor, that can be considered both humiliating, and degrading.

If you have them on there hands and knees, while you're using them as a foot rest while reading a book, to me that's also humiliating and degrading.

Personally, for me, humiliation without degradation is very hard to do. Maybe if you tied them to a chair, and you're teasing them by rubbing their balls with your foot, than that could be only humiliation. But at the same time it could be seen as degrading to other people.

So i truly believe it just comes down to personal opinion.

Also while reading my opinion on this, remember I'm very, very, very new to this whole thing. I'm sure I'll learn more about this, so please don't flame me(if that even goes on in the forum).

[cafepress]

They often go hand it hand, but are somewhat different.

[Durentu]

Thanks for the posts...

I was looking for a simple way to delineate between humiliation and degradation. The tools and tactics are the same, but the intent is different.

(erotic) humiliation = loaded weapon with positive intent.
degradation = loaded weapon with negative intent.

[NeonInk]

In my opinion, I believe the two subjects are on the same branch, yes, but they do differ in their own ways.
As the word Degradation itself explains, it degrades what the object is, degradation is physical.
Where as humiliation is something that is felt, it is mental.
Humiliation can be as easy as doing something dumb, or having people laugh at you, just things which humiliate.
Whereas degradation is a higher and more harsh form.
Degradation can be being made to sleep in mud, or to get a tattoo that forever brings down who you personally are, ect.

[LadyCoco]

I personally feel that degradation and humiliation are very separate indeed.
Humiliation =
(1)state of disgrace or loss of self-respect
(2) chagrin: strong feelings of embarrassment
Degradation =
1. to lower in character or quality; debase.
2. to reduce (someone) to a lower rank, degree, etc.;
3. to reduce in amount, strength, intensity, etc.
4. Physical Geography . to wear down by erosion, as hills.
5. Chemistry . to break down


I am teaching a class on degradation, and how it can be done with all positive reinforcement. How you ask? Well it stems from definitions. Using the definitions from the mundane world, it is my belief that degradation is the act of reducing someone from their current standing to another lower standing.

What I am reducing someone to is a primal state, and this can be done without great embarrassment or humiliation. I am simply stripping away the layers of self (and society) imposed restrictions so that the subject can enjoy less acceptable experiences without (or with less) guilt or embarrassment.

[Mr.RainbowBanana]

Well, I believe that both Humiliation and Degradation have very similar attributes, but at the same time, can be very different.

It really depends on the level of what exactly is being done/performed.

A light degrading could just be the same as some humiliation, embarrassing the subject. Though the point of degradation is to lower the self esteem of the subject ect, humiliation just to humiliate and embarrass him/her.

So they both certainly stem from the same plant, but hold very different leaves.