Playful hits and abuse...

[MasterKazugami]

Posting this here as it seems appropriate here...

Earlier on I met another person who claimed himself off as a dom, at first he seemed kinda cool. We then started to discuss stuff such as punishments, now to me I consider spankings and playful hits which don't leave permanent damage to be all right.

Though when he went into the punishments and stuff he uses to keep pets in line, I was utterly appauled. His idea of punishments or stuff to keep his pets in line was to actually do damage.
He had told me about this one time he broke his slaves arm, threatened her and then took her to hospital for no utter reason than to keep her in line.
Now as all I am aware, there is a thin line between playfully hitting and abuse. I would never ever be involved in a D/S relationship that involved anything I thought was abuse.

Tell me your thoughts on:

Using a D/S relationship for abuse?
The above person I mentioned?
The mental and physical health problems this may cause people?
Or anything else thats related to this topic?

[Enthusiastic!]

Play (and punishment!) needs to always be safe and consensual. Breaking a persons arm, even if with their consent, is not safe by any means.

The point of punishment is to correct. Correction can be done with pain that does not cause harm.

[MasterKazugami]

Play (and punishment!) needs to always be safe and consensual. Breaking a persons arm, even if with their consent, is not safe by any means.

The point of punishment is to correct. Correction can be done with pain that does not cause harm.

One of my points exactly, though this was not done in punishment, he did it on a random note just to make his pet know he was the boss.
I feel there are means other than abuse such as this to show you are the boss.

[lydiab6]

That's just abuse.


And its people like that, that perpetuates the stereotype that BDSM is dangerous and wrong. Its people like that that cause children to be removed from perfectly safe homes because their parents tie each other up. Its people like that that cause other people with natural inclinations within the BDSM community to get seriously hurt, when for once they should feel excepted and safe.

[Fiendish]

Just abuse, really. That is abuse, plain and simple. Leaving a welt or bruise is one thing, but breaking an arm? Somehow that seems excessive.

These are the people the media always pick up on, and these are the people that give us all a bad name. The fine line, I think has been severely crossed.

lydiab6 has covered it pretty good, methinks. These people are the reason we can't be overly public...

[Anjelen]

That's just abuse.
And its people like that, that perpetuates the stereotype that BDSM is dangerous and wrong. Its people like that that cause children to be removed from perfectly safe homes because their parents tie each other up. Its people like that that cause other people with natural inclinations within the BDSM community to get seriously hurt, when for once they should feel excepted and safe.

Amen!

And as Enthousiastic! noted, punishment and play should both remain consensual and safe, and this is by no means safe.

Never strike with a closed fist - Never strike in anger - Never ever lose control.

Three of the rules i myself go by, taught to me by a Mistress long ago - and rules i have ben grateful for to her, because i was a pain in the ass ;)
However else a slave is punished should always be subject to safeword and health considerations for the slave in question; some can't be (punished by) pain at all, and even that should be understood and adjusted for.
We have a great responcibility, not only to ourselves, to keep our eye on the distinction between hurt and harm, use and abuse - even when 'ab'use is what the slave needs should we first and foremost keep their health in mind.

Sometimes i find it funny - the slave is free to serve as they can while the Dom(me) should restrict themselves to a rigid code and set of rules that will not under any circumstance be deviated from.

@MasterKazugami - please tell me you have at the least considered taken any steps possible to dissuade the abusive 'dominant' in question from furthering this mode of punishment - or to dissuade his slave from their service to him?

[MasterKazugami]

@MasterKazugami - please tell me you have at the least considered taken any steps possible to dissuade the abusive 'dominant' in question from furthering this mode of punishment - or to dissuade his slave from their service to him?

I have tried, I've told him that a D/S lifestyle ain't about beating women or injuring others. Its about having sexual or non sexual based fun in a safe enviroment where nobody suffers extreme injury, that both partners feel safe and not threatened.

He then went on to say that I did not know what a D/S relationship was about, that I needed to study up more and that he could get more D/S partners due to his strictness.
After that he then blocked me.

Though I do agree with everyones points here that this is abuse to a extreme level.

[tempered_sugar]

I think it depends if this is played out in a role play, online based way or if it is carried out in real life.

I have role played online things that I would not do in real life, it is a fantasy and a fantasy alone. It can be a lot of fun and you can let your imagination run wild with the other person and have a lot of fun with no physical problems at the end of it. If you know the person well online they will know what is not an area to go near which could hurt you mentally in real life.

However if this in real life the guy is simply fluffing his ego and is abusing plain and simple. If you need to treat people like a pig to feel better then you are nothing but a pig fucker :p

[MasterKazugami]

I think it depends if this is played out in a role play, online based way or if it is carried out in real life.

I have role played online things that I would not do in real life, it is a fantasy and a fantasy alone. It can be a lot of fun and you can let your imagination run wild with the other person and have a lot of fun with no physical problems at the end of it. If you know the person well online they will know what is not an area to go near which could hurt you mentally in real life.

However if this in real life the guy is simply fluffing his ego and is abusing plain and simple. If you need to treat people like a pig to feel better then you are nothing but a pig fucker :p

Role play over the internet I can agree is fine, nobody gets physically hurt in real life by text on a screen.

Though this was basically abusing his power, I'd hate to see how this is affecting his slave.

[Chloe]

There is one sentence that really struck me in this discussion:

though this was not done in punishment, he did it on a random note just to make his pet know he was the boss.

You know what this sounds like to me? This, right here, is in no way any different than a husband, boyfriend, father etc. beating up their partners or kids to "show them who's the boss here". And even though I don't know this guy, the slave or the full situation regarding this something tells me it was most likely not consented on by this slave. If that's the case then I will go even further than call abuse... it's not only abuse but assault. Not only abuse but a criminal act in my opinion.

Most abusers are people with anger management issues and low self-esteem. I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case with him as well. After all he showed how "well" he can communicate by blocking you just because you disagreed with his "methods".

[Fiendish]

You know what this sounds like to me? This, right here, is in no way any different than a husband, boyfriend, father etc. beating up their partners or kids to "show them who's the boss here". And even though I don't know this guy, the slave or the full situation regarding this something tells me it was most likely not consented on by this slave. If that's the case then I will go even further than call abuse... it's not only abuse but assault. Not only abuse but a criminal act in my opinion.

Assault and battery, domestic abuse... I could rattle off a list of charges here.

But I digress... it's unhealthy, and it's abuse. I don't know what's wrong with people like that...

[Kitten]

Very scary.
How are you gonna trust a person like that?

[His_Einna]

I remember the way an old mentor explained it to me. There is a box in BDSM of the differant types of damage inflicted;

Unintentional pain - An accident. For instance, stepping on someone's toe. You appologize, make sure they're okay, and move on. You want to avoid it where possible, but at the end of the day, it's not a big deal.

Intentional pain - Punishment and Sadism/Masochism. Fun stuff. This is what we're all aiming for in BDSM.

Unintentional harm - Neglect. Harm is something that causes long-lasting and/or severe damage; for instance, doing a rape play and not realizing the 'victims' genuinely freaking out, therefore causing severe issues. Whilst it's possible to do this accidentally, it's usually because one person wasn't paying as much attention as they should. Usually the fact that it was any accident, and therefore the Dominant's after-care and response, will be enough to negate most of the 'harm' from an incident, so it's usually more serious just because the Dominant hasn't cared that he's done it. Does that make sense?

Intentional harm - Abuse. This is when a person intentionally causes harm, still meaning long-lasting or serious physical or mental damage. This is what the guy in the origional post is talking about.

[MasterKazugami]

You know what this sounds like to me? This, right here, is in no way any different than a husband, boyfriend, father etc. beating up their partners or kids to "show them who's the boss here". And even though I don't know this guy, the slave or the full situation regarding this something tells me it was most likely not consented on by this slave. If that's the case then I will go even further than call abuse... it's not only abuse but assault. Not only abuse but a criminal act in my opinion.

A few lines of that caused me to shudder there.
Your right about it sounding as if its assault though.

Most abusers are people with anger management issues and low self-esteem. I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case with him as well. After all he showed how "well" he can communicate by blocking you just because you disagreed with his "methods".

Again you know how to bring a chill over me, I agree though that he must have some issues there. I tried being as calm as possible, though he didn't want to listen and made it clear he weren't going to change much.

Very scary.
How are you gonna trust a person like that?

You don't, people who are that un-predictable you keep a good distance from.

[sum1]

I agree with all that has been said it's abuse pure and simple. It's the sort of situation that if i found myself talking to someone that claimed that I'd be looking into ways to report them to relevant authorities.

I never use pain as a punishment there's a simple reason for this, I'm a sadist and sugar is a masochist, if i were to try to use pain as a punishment we'd both gain too much enjoyment out of it.

I've had her write me letters of apology, i find that works well as it forces her to think about what she did wrong, that and stand in the corner. Though normally the 'look of disapproval' is enough.

[Agent Green]

This is, without a doubt, an abusive relationship. This (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safe,_sane_and_consensual) is always the most important thing in a relationship.

[Masters kitten]

i am masterkazugami's pet, and i know that he would never to anything to hurt me... i dont doubt that sometimes i will anger him, but i also know that when its time for me to be punished i can trust that he wont ever hurt me past what is acceptable.

[0siris99]

Hey do you know who that guy was I want to kill him. To inflick that type of punishment is beyond acceptable. He is just abusing his slave and he gives D/s relationships a bad rep. If your gonna punish a slave it is to correct the wrong and mentality. You can just say certain things that will be punishment enough, thats just bullshit. I Keep things acceptable, hell I bearly have to hit my slaves, I just make them feel so disappointed it's punishment enough.

Thats just plain wrong.

[MasterKazugami]

Hey do you know who that guy was I want to kill him. To inflick that type of punishment is beyond acceptable. He is just abusing his slave and he gives D/s relationships a bad rep. If your gonna punish a slave it is to correct the wrong and mentality. You can just say certain things that will be punishment enough, thats just bullshit. I Keep things acceptable, hell I bearly have to hit my slaves, I just make them feel so disappointed it's punishment enough.

Thats just plain wrong.

We just met online and got talking, I know very little on the guy otherwise.

[0siris99]

Yea I know but still.

[PaddleFan]

There's a fine line to walk between abuse and play, but breaking someone's arm certainly crosses the line. That's a long term, serious injury. Even if someone asked me to, I don't think I'd break their arm.

With any luck the police will get involved, though if the "pet" says it was an accident, there's really nothing they can do.

Why would someone stay in a relationship with a guy like that?

[Master_ofpain]

a master gets more reaction from a sturn look and a few disapointed words then inflicting harsh pain on their subs.

this comming from "master_ofpain"

if the sub feels abused leave

Masters need to be incontrol every moment of every day and know percicely what there every touch does and the reaction it gives

[Torturer]

hmm, sceptical...

my guess, and I am only guessing is that he is not very dominant, and that he doesnt have a slave/pet and that he properly never will.

so maybe the reason he was chatting with you was to test his fantasy, hear stories from you that matched his dream. When you didn't live up to his vision about a Ds relationship he had no more use for you and blocked you. Perhaps he was even angry with you for ruining his illusion about how he wanted things to be.

Now it goes from guessing to crazy fantasy: he should properly move out of his moms basement and get a job ;)

[Night-1991]

Abuse, plain and simple. I feel sorry for that sub/slave, the police should be involved. Did you save the conversation?, they can track the screen name and email of that person.

[MasterKazugami]

hmm, sceptical...

my guess, and I am only guessing is that he is not very dominant, and that he doesnt have a slave/pet and that he properly never will.

so maybe the reason he was chatting with you was to test his fantasy, hear stories from you that matched his dream. When you didn't live up to his vision about a Ds relationship he had no more use for you and blocked you. Perhaps he was even angry with you for ruining his illusion about how he wanted things to be.

Now it goes from guessing to crazy fantasy: he should properly move out of his moms basement and get a job ;)

That actually gave me a laugh, I hope it had all been an illusion in kinks of his. Mind you, with the amount of idiots I've met on the net, it wouldn't suprise me if he was telling the truth. ((Yes I have met a lot of weirdos online and wonder how I manage with them))


Abuse, plain and simple. I feel sorry for that sub/slave, the police should be involved. Did you save the conversation?, they can track the screen name and email of that person.

Unfortunatly I never saved it, though my ex slave also spoke with him and he told her the same stories...

[RotheDusstaJabbuk]

i agree with Master Kazugami, breaking a persons arm is just abuse.

i was in an abusive relationship for a little while. just three months. but in that time, i was burned to the point where i had scars on my neck, arms, and one over my breast. i was also mentally tortured to where someone can give me a look or raise their hand and i would cringe.
unfortunately, i would rather the abuse than live with my parents, so i put up with it.
both my ex bf and my master said i should have gone to the cops. my ex said that there's still time. but in my opinion, let it rest.

luckily all the scars have healed except for on on my upper arm and lower arms after i take a shower.

[Master_ofpain]

i agree with Master Kazugami, breaking a persons arm is just abuse.

i was in an abusive relationship for a little while. just three months. but in that time, i was burned to the point where i had scars on my neck, arms, and one over my breast. i was also mentally tortured to where someone can give me a look or raise their hand and i would cringe.
unfortunately, i would rather the abuse than live with my parents, so i put up with it.
both my ex bf and my master said i should have gone to the cops. my ex said that there's still time. but in my opinion, let it rest.

luckily all the scars have healed except for on on my upper arm and lower arms after i take a shower.

i feel sad for you :-(

no one should ever have want or need to do that to anyone else. especialy some one they love and care for.

sure:
branding is a popular method(be it fringe) of play between long turm partners(lifelong!), using the marks left like a wedding ring. but that is a mutualy shaired want, you dont burn someone just for the fuck of it.

yes online name: master of pain... there is a diffrence between wanted, sexualy gratifying pain and abuse

some subs do give masters permission to use any object, leave any mark..