Online relationships

green

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Online relationships? Whats everyones views on these? I have not had one yet that has worked. I think they could work. I have a webcam and digital camera for photos and videos. I can email and talk on msn. Do you think it just takes two people who want to or are they not the best route.
 

AlienMindsInc

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A relationship cannot be anything more than friendship if it is only online.

Relationships depend heavily on trust, and the internet is an anonymous source with anonymous people. Can you ever really trust a person that you have never met? I, personally cannot, there is a huge part of trust that is attributed to body language and contact. It is always harder, for example, to lie in person than distantly from a little text box on the internet.

However, if the relationship moves on, past the internet and into what I call reality, then there is the possibility. I tried this once, it ended horribly for me, sticking me with a lot of bills and two 40 hour a week obligations. Did it work for me? No. Can it work for someone? Maybe.

The real questions you've got to ask are:
1. Is person A being honest with me?
2. Am I being honest with them?
3. Have I seen all sides to this person?
4. Have I shown all sides of myself?

You may see them as trivial, but they're not. You may also think you're being honest, but really, are you? Do you come home and bitch like you do to other people? Do you argue? Have you ever shown yourself in less than a perfect or harmlessly idle bad mood? Have you ever let your darker side be shown online?

All of these things matter. One of the people I work with just moved in with his girlfriend. Moving day was quite something. She turned into a complete shrew when she has never been anything but kind and "perfect" before. This is the "dark" side I'm talking about. The last question is, "Can you handle their dark side?"

Ciao.
-M
 
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tempered_sugar

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I think they can work yes. I met Mr P online and over the course of almost a year now (oh my a whole year!) we have gotten to know each other very well. Admittedly at the beginning there was some "colouring" added to what we told each other to jazz it all up, but I think that?s natural and happens in RL as well.

If you talk to someone long enough you do get them in all moods and Mr P had defiantly sampled my many varied and sometimes "dark" sides before we met up. I have never met anyone from online and yes I know took a risk and a gamble. Might seem clich? but I felt I had talked to him enough for any craziness to have come out by then.

Talking to other people online who have tried the same it seems that people find someone the click with and then a month later meet up. Kinda asking for it to go wrong if you ask me. Just feel online should be taken slow and treated with caution for a while as eventually you will catch them on a bad day where their true colours will come through. It is very hard to hide a bad mood even online. Also arguments or problems seem huge online because there is no day to day things putting it in prospective so I think bickering is more likely online.

Me and Mr P have gotten to know each other slowly online, walts and all and now we are going to do the same real time because things are defiantly different in the big world :p We are now dating and are just going to see how things go. So far so good :D
 

EnglishGuy

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I have never had a long term relationship that started online. but I can see how TS's comments would work

I have met for casual meetings on the internet a few times and that for the most part as been good.
 

Deia

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Honestly, I have never had a D/s relationship of any sort anywhere other than online. It's a part of myself, a part of my life, that I want to keep isolated from what I think of as my "normal" self, my vanilla self. I try to keep them separated whenever possible. And, while it's much more difficult, I find that I've developed some good relationships online. Admittedly, they're somewhat less than they would be IRL, but they are still important to me. One in particular comes to mind, a friend I've been talking to for almost four years now. We are not really in a D/s relationship, it's more that we both switch, even if we prefer subbing, but we're also very good friends. He is the only person I have EVER even considered meeting IRL, and it's because of the rapport we've developed online.
I'm somewhat peculiar in that I don't do webcam or photos. I've lost many a potential master because of that, but I'm pretty firm about it. The guy I mentioned above is the only one who's seen a picture of me, and that was after almost three years of talking. I have some serious insecurities about my looks, and I like meeting people online because they're pretty much forced to get to know me for me, without the barrier of physical appearance.
 

Ricardo

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I had an interesting "friendship" that was pretty exciting for a while, and it was online with some phone calls.

I think you have to keep in mind that there is the possibility for a great deal of unknown details about the other person, though.
 

Meander

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I am still in a relationship which started online 5 years ago. We lived together for almost four years until he moved back to California to go back to school with some help from his parents. We are both polyamorous so neither of us really has to go without sex or companionship. To be honest, I would no longer consider him my primary. The person I consider to be my primary is also someone I met online and have lived with for over a year.

I posted a thread about keeping intimacy in a long distance relationship which might have some helpful suggestions in it.
 

SubMissChievous

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green said:
Do you think it just takes two people who want to or are they not the best route.

I think this is the one most common mistake I?ve seen since I started into online D/s. A lot of people still seem to think that all doms are pretty much alike, same for subs & that it should be enough for 2 people to be compatible. This is so far from the truth even with the best intentions. I have talked with many male doms & I can say that they were all very different be it in their personalities, interests, expectations, methods & degree of ?seriousness?. I don?t know as many subs but still I?m very different from the ones I know so I guess same goes for us :)

For example I must admit that it always makes me smile when I hear people say it?s easier for girls to find someone suitable as they will inevitably receive more response. The truth in this situation is: not really? It all depends what that female poster is looking for. Finding a person is no problem for most girls; finding a good one is what is harder. I know it wasn?t really the point of the original post or even mentioned previously in that thread by other posters but since the subject is more general I thought I?d bring this point as I still read comments like these on different forums & I find it a tiny bit na?ve to think so :)


tempered_sugar said:
It is very hard to hide a bad mood even online.

It?s very true, at least after some time. I think that in a relationship where both parties are being interested & observant of how the other one feel sometimes it?s surprising how you can even guess on how they?re doing ?at the moment?. Online is definitely a very different dynamic than RL. But yet it?s surprisingly amazing how some little details can say a lot sometimes. One example is something my Master noticed while chatting with me. If I?m sad or nervous or just not having a good day I tend to take a bit more time to reply as if I?m in a good mood I kinda ?fire back? right after I get a message. It?s only a few seconds delay most of the times & I believe that this would maybe even go unnoticed in RL as my mood would show in other ways. Like I said I think it?s all about being observant &genuinely interested.

So how easy it is to find someone & have a positive relationship really depends on what a person expects in the 1st place. And yeah patience is very important both while searching a partner as well as once you?ve met that person. It?s not easy & it requires some time & effort just as much as RL to make it work but yes, it is possible :)
 

AlienMindsInc

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I disagree with the bad mood showing. A careful person can hide their moods very well.

Often people project what they think the other person is like in their minds, and then when they get online they "confirm" it via small things like "it took longer to respond," etc.

Most of the time people think they've insulted me or that I'm offended by things because my replies are usually blunt and to the point. In reality, I could usually care less, like my first post that sugar replied to about toilet play, followed by my clarification. I'm not saying there aren't things to give away my moods online, but it is generally a lot harder than you think. Especially in serious discourse through IM. I always try to detach myself so arguments don't get a rise out of me. (Another example would be an argument with a Moderator on another forum that thinks I'm angry and insulting him, and is getting uppity based on the fact that he thinks I'm being uppity with him-- when all I did was ask why after four years he suddenly needs me to change my profile, I didn't even say no, I just changed it and asked-- even though he denied the change.)

What it really comes down to is your own insecurity with the person you're talking to, how well you think you know them, and how easy it is to make you feel guilty/in the wrong. It is much easier to hide a bad mood when people are projecting what they think you're feeling, or how they think you'll react.

I'll probably have more examples in a few weeks since I recently agreed to continue a relationship (using the term loosely) with a friend I met a few years ago. He had to move, and has since "fallen in love" with the idea of being my slave. Since I trust him to do everything, I'm willing to give him one shot, if he betrays it, then it's done.

-M
 

Joker

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I was in a long distance relationship for about a year and the one thing I can tell you is that trust is the most important thing. Me and this girl started out just being friends/cyber buddies and then we started dating online. It went good for the longest time but she eventually got to the point were she didnt trust me because she was under the impression that I had 20,000 girlfriends. And needless to say it was a downward spiral from there. It seemed no matter how much trust I had in her, she never had that same trust in me.

I have heard some success stories but as fate would have it for me it didnt work out :/
 

aika

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Internet friendships are brilliant, internet relationships are a lot harder.
 

tempered_sugar

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All I can say is I honestly think it depends on the two people. If someone wants to trick you and lie, they will but you have to be a very good liar to not trip up at some point. Little things like how old they were when they did a certain things is normally an easy thing to catch em out on. I have been talking for a quite a few years online and hoenstly if you talk for long enough you can always catch someone out on something.

If you both want it to work as friends then it will. There are a lot of weirdos out there I know and I have just been lucky that I have found someone I genuinlly click with. You honestly do get a gut feeling if someone is haveing you on or not and in those cases its best to keep your distance and not give up too much information bout yourself just in case.

If its just online then maybe not the best idea to take it further, but if you have spoken on the phone etc then you can get a better idea of someone. You can hear their tone etc which eliminates the taking things the wrong way part. Its also alot easier to tell someones mood etc. And to be honest if i never bickered or argued or got someone on a bad day that I was talking to onlie I would be slightly suspicious to begin with, who never has a bad day?:)

You don't have to be a synical sausage all the time, some people do tell you the truth and it really can work online. I know someone who married the girl he met online 3 years ago and is still blissfully happy :D
 
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Merlin

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I disagree with the bad mood showing. A careful person can hide their moods very well.
You are right a careful person can hide their feelings very well for some time ... but believe me after some time you will show them (online or offline). Especially to people who know you . I can hide my feelings without a problem to people who don't know me... and of course this is even easier online than offline. But people that really know me will see these little changes i show if it is online or offline. My real friends (i have 3) can tell what i think although noone around me will see any change in my behaviour, why? Because the changes are so minimal that people that don't know me very well will not see them, and they are not controlable by myself. In some way the same can be said for online relations. You may think you can hide your feelings from people, and you are even right with it in 99% of the cases, but someone you write over messanger every day for around 5 hours per day for 6 months not only to give orders but about all you are thinking and feeling you will see little differences ... in things like time you need to answer, writing speed or the words you use (Yeah, Yes, Ok, Right)... plus we are talking about 2 people that don't want to lie to the other one...
I may have to add another thing here, for some people this is easier than for others, because they tend to look for these little details. And are also very good in reading people offline... so they may have also less problems online than people that don't look for this small changes and/or like you said are only seeing it from their point of view. So online and offline some people will be better in in than others. It really depends on how empathic they are.
Also all your examples are about people that don't know you ... so you cant really compare them with the things chlo? was talking about...
 

SubMissChievous

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I think one thing that has to be clear & understood is that online relationships isn?t necessarily for everyone. The dynamic is very different & it takes just as much effort as any other types of relationships. I?m afraid that, again, I will repeat myself by saying that each & everyone has different needs, expectations, past experiences, etc. that makes them seek different things? And I?m still stunned when I see people not recognizing that fact. Which is why I?ll never buy generalized statements such as ?A relationship cannot be anything more than friendship if it is only online?? AlienMinds, you said yourself:

Can you ever really trust a person that you have never met? I, personally cannot?

Wouldn?t it be more accurate to say that a relationship cannot be anything more than friendship if it is only online? for you? I hope you don?t take it as a knock on you because I do agree partially with some other parts of your posts but please bear in mind that everyone is not like you.

I disagree with the bad mood showing. A careful person can hide their moods very well.

Often people project what they think the other person is like in their minds, and then when they get online they "confirm" it via small things like "it took longer to respond," etc.

Again, this another point where you must understand that these things will be perceived differently depending on your personality, your attitude & how much you honestly want the relationship to work. This was only one example. And, yes, trust me, my Master has seen lots of my ?dark side? much to a point that a lot of others would have ran away from me. I?m fully aware that a lot of people are not fully honest or hide some parts of themselves? Not everyone though & after some time it gets harder to hide these anyway. And for those who seek something more casual maybe it doesn?t even matter. As for more ?serious? relationships it all depends on how genuine & committed the persons involved are. And as I mentioned in my previous post, one has to be very observant & not everyone has that quality in them. So it all comes down to what I said in the beginning that personality & expectations are important factors just as much as trust & honesty.
 

rumen

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I am not a believer in the online relationships. Internet is good at handling chatting or virtual meetings and so on, but in my opinion, the personal experience must be real.
However, it is true that some lucky guys/gals have met their partner online. It's just a different experience for everybody.
 

AlienMindsInc

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Wow, I never saw this response, I'm sorry for the late response, Chloe.

As far as online relationships being only a friendship to me.... No. They cannot. Friendship requires trust, trust requires intimate knowledge of the other person. That requires a real life component to the relationship. I'm sorry, Chloe, but to use you as an example for this, if you were to message me every day for the next 20 years, you'd still only be 13 characters in my inbox. Although, I'm certain, if it was such an extreme amount of time I'd have built some amount of trust, but without actually meeting, the only thing for 100% certain I'd know is that when I met you you were not an 80 year old creepy stalker person. Maybe I'm just a cynical bastard, but I believe all people are liars and thieves waiting to strike and hurt you the best they can. This doesn't mean they can't be nice, friendly, or kind, but they are predisposed to pain and suffering and causing pain and suffering.

To continue this point, even though it is very extreme, if you and I were to have an encounter somewhere, you suddenly became real and earned about 12 years worth of the trust that was building. When things become real, in my experience, they become accelerated due to online interaction, if the online interaction was not immediately proved to be full of false pretenses and lies.


Anyway I've strayed from my topic. I still believe that online relationships without a real component cannot work. There must be a real component or the relationship is as weak as dust in a hurricane. If your needs are satisfied by a little white square with black text, there is a serious problem, and you need serious psychiatric attention.

Next, I'm not saying that personality and expectations are unimportant, I'm saying they are secondary to trust and honesty, in all relationships. The reason people have more than one relationship of any type is because it is not apparent for a few months what the other person wants out of the relationship. The relationship is a means to get that information and understand the person, but it won't work without trust and honesty between you. I'm not saying little white lies, lies of omission, or anything like that are the ending circumstances of a relationship. Sometimes they are useful, sometimes necessary, sometimes they are huge problems. The determining factor is what the other person thinks they are, and if they forgive you.

Finally, back to the "well hidden moods." It is not impossible, or even hard to maintain hidden moods. Maybe I have too much experience, but the simple way to do it is adopt a writing style for each type of encounter. I have never, personally, been able to break myself of that. I naturally step back when I get angry, look at the situation, think about it, and reply in an appropriate tone. There are several default cases, criticism of me, curiosity, cold logic.. etc. Often people mistake the tones for things they expect to hear. When I get into "philosophy" mode people think I'm angry because it is a mixture of curiosity and cold logic. They misunderstand it as "Oh God, he's pissed" and treat it according to how guilty they feel, or how angry they are. To catch someone's proper mood you must know them well enough to know how they react to things, and you must understand what they feel about what you said. Without meeting in person, I find this to be the most difficult part, and because it is the most difficult part, it is the part that has the most problems/errors associated with it.

I'd love to continue rambling, but I've got to get to work. I'll wait for another reply.

Ciao.
 

tempered_sugar

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All I can say is that not everyone is out to lie and decieve you online. What doesn't work for you will work for someone else, talking to someone online is no different to an old fashioned pen pall and meeting someone online to me is no different to randomly meeting someone in a bar, you are running very similar risks. Just because someone is infront of you doesn't mean they can't lie and pretend to be something they are not. Sometimes you can't tell what is truth if you don't know someone very well, you don't always get the gut feeling that they aren't telling the truth online or real life.

I just don't like generalisation and if someone is happy with an online relationship whether its friendship or more then does it matter that it isn't socialy acceptable and considered "normal" to alot of people?
 

AlienMindsInc

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See, but now you're putting words in my mouth.

It is my belief that if there is no real interaction there can be no real relationship. I have made that abundantly clear by now, I believe.

This doesn't mean that YOU have to agree with me. It doesn't mean it is true in ALL cases. However, in ALL of my experiences, and most of the stories I've heard, Prince Charming drops off the face of the earth without so much as an emoticon, or real life happens and the relationship is a complete flop. The statistics from my view, and my experiences tell me that the vast majority of online relationships fail.

This line: "A relationship cannot be anything more than friendship if it is only online. " from my original post is EXACTLY as it says it is. It isn't a generalization, it is a fact. The key word you've been missing this entire time is ONLY. As in there is no real life interaction, no face to face moments. You cannot get married online, and you cannot have children online. (Roleplay doesn't count.) The reason is because biology cannot work through a wire alone. (Why would you even WANT such a thing to be able to happen?) No country will ever recognize a marriage where the participants have not met, ever; especially not if they aren't face to face at the wedding. Boyfriend-girlfriend, etc, relationships MUST have a real life component or you're just kidding each other.

You may feel free to disagree, but at this point, you must realize that my "generalization" is something I will never concede, so I will agree to disagree with you, and leave it at that.
 

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