Trust, verification and the unfair burden on female subs

[Doctor Pervert]

For some time now we have had in place a verification system, open to anyone but mostly used by sub females to prove they are genuine and prevent unneeded harassment about their authenticity. I feel this has placed an unfair burden on what are often shy and wary individuals to supply this proof and gain the trust of the Doms seeking them.

So why does it have to be like this, well we have whole threads devoted to the discussion of fakes and catfish, the bane, plague and scourge of just about every online kink site. I guess just about every Dom(me) has had his/her share of fakes in the past and as such grown wary of anyone not willing to verify in some way.

The process we use is somewhat crude but effective utilizing a photo with some information written on paper by them. This is actually very difficult to fudge up using photoshop and has been our go to method now for several years.
Recently I have been pondering if there are other methods that could be put to use but after examining many potential ideas they all fall well short of the photo method.
In fact as looked around on other sites to see what they use it seems the only method in use is basically the same as ours and I guess its because it is a really reliable way to verify.

One potential method I am considering still uses a photo but in a much more innocent and simplified way.
For this all that would be required is the sub to request a verification code. This will be supplied by staff and will be in the form of a 8 character alpha numeric sequence. The sub then has to either write this number on their palm or on a post-it note stuck to their palm and take a photo of their full hand including this note and code. They then have to turn their hand over and take another photo of the back of their hand.
These 2 photos must be done at the same time, same lighting, same background, etc and it should be fairly obvious if they are female.

So what do the subs think about this burden being on them, and what about the Doms, do you even bother to contact anyone not verified?
What do think about the hand code method, is it less invasive and imposing, or do you think it will be too unreliable?

 

[J91]

Another interesting topic! Well I think it comes down to supply and demand and the issue of rarity. Females are much more in demand, and genuine females tend to be a little on the rare side, therefore there is more pressure to prove oneself as genuine to stand out from the crowds of fakes. Is this fair? Well, I would ask for proof from anyone I decided to play with. I wouldn't play casually with anyone and I would always enter some type of relationship AFTER getting verification from a potential Dom/me. I've been burnt before and have absolutely no desire for that to happen again.

Is it fair? well if I'm asking for verification, then isn't it fair for the other person to do so too? I wouldn't expect anyone to engage in any type of play without being absolutely certain of who was on the other side of the screen. As you mentioned Doc, the most common way is the picture method - and I have no issues with this. The hand method could be a little unreliable - you can't always tell gender by looking at someones hand and it's much easier to fool using that method.

I wouldn't refrain from contacting someone because they haven't been verified (as you notice, I haven't take the time to verify myself, but I'd expect both parties to verify before proceeding to anything further. So it's not necessarily a burden on the sub, but an expectation of both sides.

 

[raenef]

As written bei J91 it is about reality.

Will a female claim to be a male
will a diverse claim to be a male/female
will a female claim to be a man

what % of users are m/f/d?


You might have fun even if you are "cheated" so a proof is not a necessary and neither should one force pictures (face/body)

 

[J91]

You might have fun even if you are "cheated" so a proof is not a necessary and neither should one force pictures (face/body)

I completely disagree with this statement. Speaking from experience, 'having fun' but finding out you were 'cheated' afterwards taints the whole relationship and makes it not worth the time or effort you put into it.

 

[Doctor Pervert]

I completely disagree with this statement. Speaking from experience, 'having fun' but finding out you were 'cheated' afterwards taints the whole relationship and makes it not worth the time or effort you put into it.

Yes exactly!
This argument has come up before in the discussions about fakes as justification for their deception. And it seems that the common thread is that they consider this just some harmless online fun. A lot of us are real and looking for real relationships not some kind of inane throw away game.

 

[Doctor Pervert]

I wouldn't refrain from contacting someone because they haven't been verified (as you notice, I haven't take the time to verify myself, but I'd expect both parties to verify before proceeding to anything further. So it's not necessarily a burden on the sub, but an expectation of both sides.

This is an interesting take on things, I wonder though how much this depends on the actual make up of the pair? It seems to me the most problems occur when it is guys posing as girls regardless of role, in other words female subs and Dommes suffer the same mistrust issue whereas I can't think of a single instance where anyone has complained of being deceived by a girl posing as a guy.
From an admin perspective most complaints come about fake Dommes from male subs, this is closely followed by Doms reporting fake female subs.

In both instances it the deceptive males causing the problem forcing the females to prove their authenticity, this was the basis of my original theme of it being an unfair burden.

 

[raenef]

I completely disagree with this statement. Speaking from experience, 'having fun' but finding out you were 'cheated' afterwards taints the whole relationship and makes it not worth the time or effort you put into it.

first being cheated is probably for nearly everyone no fun
being in a relationship is build on trust

i was aiming at something like we play once vs we continue to play (relationship)

 

[J91]

In both instances it the deceptive males causing the problem forcing the females to prove their authenticity, this was the basis of my original theme of it being an unfair burden.

Absolutely agree with that. I have exclusively subbed to females so verification of authenticity has been expected from both sides. In defence of males, there are so many fakes around that I don't necessarily blame them for wanting to check but there is a time and a place, and it should be done respectfully.

i was aiming at something like we play once vs we continue to play (relationship)

I think that if you're playing with someone even just once, you owe them respect. Regardless of it being 'once' or a 'relationship', claiming to be someone else or another gender just isn't morally right.

 

[Master Vagrant]

Can you know from a full hand photo that person is male or a female? Code is ok, but still if you require just a hand, it can be anybody.
In my online relationships i do require to know if other person is a female, but not with nudes. Since i require skype and webcam, i suggest to potential sub to create skype just for that and then we both go on a cam, like a normal interview talk. I do allow face to be covered. Thats how i do it.

About gender unfair, lets be honest, on every site there is so much male subs/slaves and we need female verification so we can keep you here, if we know you are genuine

 

[camaikun]

I don't think you can always tell from someone's hand whether they are male or female. I've known many men with feminine hands and women with masculine hands.
The idea of a 8 character code is slightly more useful than having someone put their name and date on a piece of paper in theory. However, this could lead to fakes putting any combination of 8 characters on a note and taking the pictures in the hopes that they could lure people in before a mod figures out that they are in fact a fake.

For me, if someone absolutely refuses to show proof through a picture I choose, perhaps writing their name on a crumpled piece of paper and holding it in view of something that could prove them to be female, I'll stop talking to them. Other options might put more pressure on mods and take a lot longer to verify.

Some people enjoy the thrill of chatting with someone regardless of whether the person is real or not, but at the end of the day, no one likes to be cheated and realise that all the time and frustration built up talking to someone is for nothing.

 

[Doctor Pervert]

In my online relationships i do require to know if other person is a female, but not with nudes.

This is a good point, the verification photo doesn't need to be nude and indeed that is the case here.
Perhaps then a combination of the non-nude photo with a code would be better? That way there is no link from the photo to your user name or this (or any other) kink site so searches won't find anything.
I do agree about the hand not being very reliable but it is surprising how often even that is enough to put a fake off, if you ask for the hand shot and they do the old, "my camera is broken" line you can be pretty certain they are lying to you.

 

[piesocial]

I've run into one or two female dommes out of hundreds of men pretending to be a domme over the years. I don't understand the suggestion that it's a burden for sub females as they tend to be real.

More confusing is this suggestion of an "unfair" burden when it comes to domme females as they are almost universally fake.

 

[nina]

Would add my two cents here wrt fake females (especially dommes). As a lurker I have often come across such ads and 99% times (like most sensible people here) am able to make out the fakes as they have certain giveaways like the most desirable queen looking for a slave to worship.. blah blah.. I feel while a select few catfish maybe difficult to detect, a majority of fake dommes or fakes can be recognised within the first few conversations at most. I also like how Doc has introduced suspected fake designations (couldn't stop laughing the first time I visited one such profile..lol) while also giving them an opportunity to clear their name.

Coming back to the point, while I can understand and am considerate towards the plight of genuine people duped by men posing as women, and to make their partners more mentally secure, many women willingly verify; I also understand that it should be appreciated as a nice gesture and not thought of as an entitlement or that the onus to prove they are genuine lies on the women alone (the men/partners should also prove they are not a douchebag..lol). No one is guilty unless proven innocent, in fact its the other way round.

Bottom line being just because many are outright fake, it is no excuse to pester genuine women (who give no reason to doubt them and their actions/posting history corroborate to the fact that they are bonafide) for their pictures (to prove that they are female? or an opportunity to get pics idk) even without entering into a dynamic, and that misuse happens too (not talking about kt site verification system but about people who baselessly pester for proof while often doing little at their own end to earn trust and reciprocate). I thought I would bring that observation of mine to light as well while not meaning any disrespect to those with contrary views.

Lastly another way of verification in my opinion is an audio, while I understand there are text to speech software, I think asking for a message involving both speech and say a few lines of a song sung is what I find reliable for now.

 

[Doctor Pervert]

I've run into one or two female dommes out of hundreds of men pretending to be a domme over the years. I don't understand the suggestion that it's a burden for sub females as they tend to be real.

More confusing is this suggestion of an "unfair" burden when it comes to domme females as they are almost universally fake.

It is simply unfair that those scant few genuine Dommes have to prove that fact, caused by the idiotic actions of these stupid catfish males pretending to be female. But then again this is an obvious edge they can gain, if they do verify they can pretty much have their pick of ANY sub guys and gals they want, lol...

 

[piesocial]

Recommending verification upfront helps everybody, then there's no reason for the domme to get pestered by seemingly unending numbers of sub men for verification to each of them individually. And it saves all of the sub men/women lots of time in their search. And it will encourage those subs to produce better introductions, as well as higher quality interactions in general.

Otherwise you have dommes demanding long interactions from subs, who comply a few times likely, before discovering they wasted all their time for a liar. Then are less likely to put in the effort next time.

It doesn't need to be seen as some kind of "assumption of guilt" for the rare domme, it has to do with the space they occupy and share with people who are unfortunately guilty.

 

[raenef]

if you turn the question around, how can you stop men acting as women be it domme or sub/slave

 

[nina]

I am not against verification, I am just saying men shouldn't feel entitled to demand it outright (in the absence of any red flags in the profile/posts as fake profiles are often telling on their own) and should rather see it as a nice gesture and reciprocate in a way to also win the female's trust .